Are clubs like West Ham, Everton and Newcastle now destined NEVER to play Champions League Football?

Question

http://fourfourtwo.com/news/restofeurope/35808/default.aspx

Without large investment how else are clubs outside of the established 'top 4' in each major European League now expected to have enough quality to qualify ahead of teams that have substantially higher revenues?

Real, Liverpool, Barca, Utd et al all have an eclipsing number of foreign support able to bring each club MORE money than West Ham and Everton could ever hope to manage not to mention being considered by the richest, highest profile sponsors who wouldn't consider any team outside of the 'top 4'.

Isn't the Champions League just becoming an elitist club which accepts no new members (if it hasn't done already)? Is this what football fans want to see? An NFL based football championship where only the same 32 teams compete EVERY year?

Answer 1

EK it's already there but the big club supporters don't see it because their team's are winning...



Barça is owned by the fans and a large amount of the players come because of our history not because of the contracts we can pay... We don't have the financial backing like Real Madrid, who has the government of Spain at it's disposal. That's why they've been able to win 9 CLs and 31 league titles and spend €252 million in one year...



@ 1892: Barcelona does not have a reserve of cash... The thing is we have been European competition since the inception and that history has allowed the team to attract big players. BUT there's no river of money...



@ EK: I agree but that's mostly because of our history. I am also sick of playing the same teams every year and it gets boring... And I could definitely see why a fan outside of the Big Four would be bored with the CL. Why would you watch if you know your team can't make it because it doesn't have any money?

Honestly the corruption is within the Leagues. Real Madrid has no business playing in the CL this year but the Spanish FA allowed them to keep "winning" last year after having that awful team playing... And it happens in all leagues and I'm not going to be a hypocrite and not admit that Barça has received a few beneficial calls once in a while. But like you say it all comes down to money...



@ EK & 1892: No worries about the TDs... You should had posted this Q earlier or tomorrow morning or later today because UK's already almost 2am, right?... I wonder what the United faithful would had said...



@ Chuck: Your stats are right BUT this is more about being able to at least compete for it.

Answer 2

I'm sorry hasn't the CL or European Cup generally been an exclusive club that very few teams get into, and generally the same group of teams are winning it year in and year out.

60's Finals - 60/61 Benfica 3 Barcelona 2--61/62 Benfica 5 Real Madrid 2--62/63 AC Milan 2 Benfica 1--63/64 Inter Milan 3 Real Madrid 1--64/65 Inter Milan 1 Benfica 0--65/66 Real Madrid 2 Partizan Belgrade 1--66/67 Celtic 2 Inter Milan 1--67/68 Manchester United 4 Benfica 1--68/69 AC Milan 4 Ajax 1--69/70 Feyenoord 2 Celtic 1



70's Finals - 70/71 Ajax 2 Panathinaikos 0--71/72 Ajax 2 Inter Milan0-- 72/73 Ajax 1 Juventus 0--73/74 Bayern Munich 4 Atletico Madrid 0-- 74/75 Bayern Munich 2 Leeds United 0-- 75/76 Bayern Munich 1 St. Etienne 0-- 76/77Liverpool 3 Borussia Monchengladbach 1--77/78 Liverpool 1 FC Brugges 0--78/79 Nottingham Forest 1 Malmo 0--79/80 Nottingham Forest 1 SV Hamburg 0



80's Finals - 80/81 Liverpool 1 Real Madrid 0-- 81/82 Aston Villa 1 Bayern Munich 0-- 82/83 SV Hamburg 1 Juventus 0-- 83/84 Liverpool 1 Roma 1 (4-2pk)--84/85 Juventus 1 Liverpool 0-- 85/86 Steaua Bucharest 0 Barcelona 0 (2-0pk)-- 86/87 FC Porto 2 Bayern Munich 1 87/88 PSV Eindhoven 0 Benfica 0 (6-5pk)-- 88/89 AC Milan 4 Steaua Bucharest 0-- 89/90 AC Milan 1 Benfica 0



90's Finals - 90/91 Red Star Belgrad 0 Marseille 0 (5-3pk)-- 91/92 Barcelona 1 Sampdoria 0-- 92/93 Marseille 1 AC Milan 0-- 93/94 AC Milan 4 Barcelona 0-- 94/95 Ajax 1 AC Milan 0-- 95/96 Juventus 1 Ajax 1 (4-2pk)-- 96/97 Borussia Dortmund 3 Juventus 1-- 97/98 Real Madrid 1 Juventus 0-- 98/99 Manchester United 2 Bayern Munich 1-- 99/00 Real Madrid 3 Valencia 0



2000's Finals - 00/01 Bayern Munich 1 Valencia 1 (5-4pk)-- 01/02 Real Madrid 2 Bayer Leverkusen 1-- 02/03 AC Milan 0 Juventus 0 (3-2pk)-- 03/04 FC Porto 3 AS Monaco 0-- 04/05 Liverpool 3 AC Milan 3 (3-2pk) 05/06 Barcelona 2 Arsenal 1-- 06/07 AC Milan 2 Liverpool 1-- 07/08 Manchester United 1 Chelsea 1 (6-5pk)-- 08/09 Barcelona 2 Man United 0



I think it's obvious it's been the same teams generally for the last few decades.



Teams will find ways around the rules, what's to stop them making a large donation before the rules come into effect.



@Dubya- It's always been that way, very few teams can legitimately compete for it and very few ever have. The teams that are popular and successful now are successful because of previous success and money driven into the club as they are all in major cities. Their early money and success breeds more money and success, which eliminates most teams from challenging for any domestic trophy or European one. It hasn't ever been a wide open tournament, if you want I'll run through the list of all the semi-finalists and show that it's always been the same teams and always will. Occasionally you get a Partizan Belgrade throwing everyone for a loop but when was the last serious surprise contender, and how many have there been throughout the history of the competition?



I'm not saying it's a good thing, it's just the nature of the beast. It's like complaining about players going abroad to play for bigger clubs.



PS-You honestly think that Barcelona offer history as their main appeal? If players like Ibra weren't paid the exorbitant amounts they are at Barca then they wouldn't care about the history and you'd be left with domestic players and a handful of foreigners. Every player that signs for a club claims to care about the history but they wouldn't give a damn if they weren't getting paid millions of dollars/pounds/euros a year. Please stop with the Barca is a holier than thou club, they are just as corrupt as the others.

Answer 3

Never say never. 10 years ago we were serious contenders for the PL title and Europe. I will admit that the three teams mentioned in your question are very, very unlikely to accomplish anything special within the next few years. But who knows what the EPL table will be like in 5 years? For all you know a multi-billionaire could take over Newcastle and and pump money, SAF could di and the investors of Man U might lose interest, and i think it's clear that Notts County are going through an amazing revolution, and could be in the PL very soon. You just don't know. But within the next few years. I seriously doubt that we are going to win anything other than the Championship title. I don't know much about the NFL, but they have to accept whoever is the champions of each league.



The article you linked is ridiculous. If that happens then clubs like Man U and Barca are going to be left unapposed and then ruin football for life. They already have HUGE reserves of cash they can dip into, which will not be affected by these new rules. God damn the French.



@Dubya: Sorry, for that part i was specifically referring to Man U. Should have mentioned that, sorry, i'm a bit tired. But common sense dictates that Barca have and will continue to have a clear flow of money from sponsers (big clubs always get more) and money investments from the title's you win. You already got £6million just for being in the CL.



Yea i dunno why he has td's either, i think they are valid points.



@ Metal Biker: Yea that is true, but i have no doubt what so ever that those owners and investors would find loop holes. But, i suppose the only hope would be sponsor deals. I can see the signing costs sky rocket with this as all the teams try to keep afloat. The Sky4 (nice term, btw) are set now, but it is still 3 years away, lets hope clubs prepare for this and save football.

Answer 4

Every year you miss out on it, it makes it harder to get in. The Champions League clubs continue to get the money and to attract the better players who want to play in the competition.

When Newcastle lost in the Champions League qualifier a few years back, I felt that was the turning point in our recent history and we went on a downward spiral. I'm sure Leeds fans would say the same.

Yes the champions league is becoming elitist, and the worrying thing is that it affects domestic leagues too. Many of us mocked Scottish football with the 2-team dominence and lack of quality from the other teams, but is it really that much different in England? or Spain, Italy etc...

I worry about the future of football. When you have no competition, you have no interest, and when you have no interest the big money people like Sky and other sponsors will pull the plug and all football clubs will be in big trouble believe me.

Answer 5

It was only a matter of time for something like that to happen, West Ham and Everton will have their chance in CL but not over the night like Man City and Chel$ki. The CLUBS like Man City and Chel$ki didn't deserve in any way to buy all those players. lol. This is just another English hypocrisy..... so West Ham and Everton have bigger chances to get CL football if clubs like Man City are building their teams with millions??? That's even worse, in that case West Ham or Everton can't even compete for UEFA Cup not CL. Platini is doing the right thing and that should be done a long time ago, if Villarreal can get to semifinal of CL without Arab millions then Man City should too. Platini and I don't have anything against Man City but against their rich OWNERS that only exploit their clubs for personal financial profit. DOWN WITH MODERN FOOTBALL

Answer 6

Biker dude i am surprised you do not know why Abramovich is not worried by this new rule which will not take effect for at least three years. Under rules set up by FIFA/UEFA and adopted by all associations. at the moment what he wants to bring in only has an affect on lower league clubs but will hit clubs like Man utd/Chelsea/Arsenal/Liverpool/Man city/Real Madrid and others like that. but like your club Notts County who being in division three can only spend 60% of their revenue they CAN generate on players or wages. so how can they pay Sol Campbell Premiership wages???

A rule exists that if a donation or gift is given to the club its counted as generated income. like Belasconi used to do with Milan. So if Man City and others get to this point they can give themselves a gift or donation to set the required level to support their wages or transfers.

The Clubs that will be most hit are Man Utd/ Liverpool/ Arsenal/Real Madrid where their debts are financed by the banking community. So no real concerns and you don't think Platini will still be there in three years time.

Answer 7

It has to stay this way, because for the simple fact, theyre the best 4 clubs in the country, you shouldnt be moaning that teams form our country are doing well. In champs league, we get to see the best of the best against eachother, very exiting games, dont moan, the big 4 will stay where they are.

Answer 8

Arsenal never neede top players to be were they are.



alll they did was to buy good mid table players.



i don`t know why Wigan and west ham can`t do thesame, they want fats success

Answer 9

Dubya i was only quoting this from memory and notice it says expences. and dont refer to me as a BROAD its insulting and is such an old term. I have never insulted you.



http://www.fcbarcelona.com/web/english/noticies/club/temporada08-09/08/n080824102955.html





http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/23082009/58/la-liga-valencia-secure-64m-loan.html

Answer 10

You forgot Villa! LMAO!